Clint Murphy, Daniel Priestley
Clint Murphy 00:15
Welcome to the growth guide podcast. I’m your host Clint Murphy. Every week I talk to authors, subject matter experts and millionaire mentors to share the lessons that will help you and me be better achieve more and become financially free.
Clint Murphy 00:36
Today I had a wonderful conversation with Daniel Priestley, an entrepreneur, best selling author and international speaker. Daniel has worked with some of the world’s most successful people, and has built his own successful multimillion dollar businesses. We talk about his book Oversubscribed, How to Get People Lining Up to do Business with You. And Daniel shares proven real world methods that will help you drive demand for your products or services, and dramatically increase the success of your business. Enjoy the conversation. Good morning, Daniel. Welcome to the podcast. Today I want to talk to you about your book Oversubscribed. Before we begin though, can you give our listeners a brief bio on who you are, and then we’ll dive right into the book.
Daniel Priestley 01:36
Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. I love the previous guests that you’ve had. And it’s really wonderful to be joining a great group of people. I’ve been an entrepreneur for the last 20 years, I was born and raised in Australia. And I kind of had this experience as a teenager where I got to work at McDonald’s and meet my McDonald’s owner and read a book called The E Myth and and suddenly, I thought to myself, That’s what I want to do. I want to be a business owner, I want to be an entrepreneur. So I just through a series of events, had this excitement to be in business. And that’s what I kind of knew from a young age, I always wanted to do. At 19, I joined a startup, and I was employee number three, and we didn’t have a bank account or a business name. And we went really fast growth – 6 million in the first year, 60 employees in the first year. And I got to be very, very close with the founder in building that so I had this amazing experience of being able to ride shotgun in a fast growth business. From 19 to 20, at 21, I went to the founder and said, can I get shares in the company and he said, you can have shares in your own company if you go start your own company, but you know, having shares in mind. And I did I went off and started my own business. And that was my first company at age 21. And it took off really fast. So we did about 1.3 million in year 1, 10.7 million in year three. So I was 23, 24 years old, and we’re doing a million a month of sales. And then I grew and expanded it, moved from Australia into London, built a global business with offices around the world. We had offices in eight cities around the world at one point at pre pandemic, we’ve now consolidated to three time zones, with offices in London, Sydney and Toronto. And today, I buy and sell companies. So I’ve bought eight companies in the group. I’ve written a bunch of books about my entrepreneurial journey, I’ve started different companies. I’m a co founder of a business called score app, where we created some technology that’s very fast growth tech. It’s become a valuable company in its first couple of years. And you know, had some fun stuff of one entrepreneur of the year in the UK. So yeah, books, businesses, all that sort of stuff. And I’m a dad, I’ve got three little kids four, five, and eight.
Clint Murphy 03:53
And eight. So do you want them to have that same experience working at McDonald’s that you had and I asked that because I also am a McDonald’s alumni and I don’t know if you can remember back to your days working there. But the the speed, the intensity, the buzzers and the bells going off everywhere, the stress and I’ve often found that if you can excel in the McDonald’s restaurant, you ought to be able to excel in just about any job you get thrown at.
Daniel Priestley 04:31
Yeah, I think that too, you know, a lot of people who I’ve worked with in the past and a lot of entrepreneurs have had that McDonald’s background. And when you say can you remember, I remember very clearly, I remember day one, getting taught how to sneeze. I don’t know if they taught you the system for sneezing. But we got taught the system on how to sneeze on day one. I still remember things like that there are 53 nuggets in the bag and the toasters are 215 degrees Celsius and 188 and 166 degrees on the platinum grills. I still remember, you know, 10 minute timer behind the Big Macs, the six steps of customer service, like all of that stuff was just drilled. And then 25 years later, it’s still in my head, I can tell you the six steps of service that we got taught on the front counter off the top of my head, weirdly.
Clint Murphy 05:20
See, I never got to the front counter though.
Daniel Priestley 05:23
Ah, you’re in the back.
Clint Murphy 05:24
I was the grill boy. Yeah, so for me, it was more. If there’s time to lean, there’s time to clean, and just mopping the heck out of the place,
Daniel Priestley 05:33
Lay six for eggs.
Clint Murphy 05:34
Like the ability to have six eggs in my hands and cracking them at the same time. I can’t do that as an adult.
Daniel Priestley 05:43
No, I can do that. Now from McDonald’s. I still crack eggs one handed. So I’m still when I’m making eggs. Now I’m just bashing out eggs, one with one hand, I can crack and put an egg down in a nice little circle, because I did so many of them at McDonald’s. So do I want my kids to have that? Yeah, look, I’m not against that. There were some things that I was against. Looking back now they were never particularly helpful when it came to us overeating on McDonald’s, right. So I was working four shifts a week, and they just let us eat as much of that stuff as we wanted. And we once the store closed, we could pile it all onto the kitchen bench and eat everything that was in the waste. At the end of close time, whatever was not eaten you could eat. And that stuff I think was pretty, wildly irresponsible. I had incredible acne as a teenager. And looking back at it now. I don’t think this was a big mystery as to why I was getting this acne. I was smashing out McDonald’s four nights a week.
Clint Murphy 06:44
Yeah, you started to smell look feel like…
Daniel Priestley 06:48
Oh, yeah, covered in grease.
Clint Murphy 06:50
Like it oozed out of your pores. 100%. Yeah. Ah, the memories. So let’s shift gears to your book. And where I’d love to start with you, is to work through some of the principles that you talk about. And the first one that jumped out at me, you said only oversubscribed businesses make a profit. And in this section, you talked about the idea that we only need two bidders, and it raised the idea for me. And then interestingly, what it brought out in my head was if I’m a coach, one of the ways that I can increase my revenue is to be confident in myself, restrict my boundaries, and limit the number of spots I had. And then later you brought out Rich Litvin, who’s someone who I monitor closely with the intention that when I pivot from working full time to being an entrepreneur, that I would seek out and work with Rich.
Daniel Priestley 07:54
So I was Rich’s business coach for a while.
Clint Murphy 07:56
Yeah. So can you take people through how Rich.
Daniel Priestley 07:59
The coach’s coach.
Clint Murphy 08:00
Yeah, how does he use the boundaries to increase the value and really his overall revenue?
Daniel Priestley 08:09
Let me say that I wouldn’t talk about one of my clients without their permission first, but let’s just talk in general, right. And maybe some of this will be similar to what someone like Rich might do. Let’s say this, let’s say you’re a coach, and you say, I’ve got eight clients. That’s it. And I’m only going to have eight clients. And I’m going to charge 80 grand a client. That’s my model. So I’m going to make $640,000 per year and eight clients who pay 80 grand a year. That would be a really great starting point. Because then you know, that realistically, you become oversubscribed, as soon as you’ve got nine who want that right? And of course, if you can get 30 or 40, who want that, now you’re in a position where you’re really oversubscribed, you’ve, you’re over subscribed to the waiting list. If you’ve got you know, 16, 20, 30 clients who would say yeah, I in theory, I’d like to do that. Whether it’s now or in the future, at some point, you’re now pretty over subscribed. What most coaches do is they don’t start with that, they start with, oh, how much do I earn per hour? And how many hours can I sell as much as I possibly can. And they don’t ever create any game or dynamic. So publicly declaring I can only take on eight clients at any given time, and I’m 80,000 per year. That’s the start of the game. And that means now that means the gauntlet is down. So now you can begin the process of being oversubscribed. If you want to run a group because Rich, for example, has an amazing group called 4PC which we worked on creating together and it’s the top 4% And it’s only for 40. Alright, so it’s a group of 40 people and it’s got a waiting list. It’s got a long waiting list now. So it’s a really well thought through group and he built it for 40 people. He got people to signal that they are interested and I think he probably had something like 80 to 100 people signal and then he selected the 40 that he wanted to put in it. And now it’s one in one out. People don’t leave because it’s hard to get back in if you leave. So that is an example of of being oversubscribed, just to highlight the idea that only profitable businesses, only oversubscribed businesses are profitable. If you take extreme examples, like an airline, you think if a business should be profitable because it’s fair, that it will be profitable, an airline would certainly be a good contender. It is only fair that if you are flying planes through the air, and you have to have 100% safety record, and that you have to have massive capital investment. And you have to deliver hot chicken curry perfectly at 30,000 feet every single time with a nice glass of wine. And you have to take off and land within a few minutes of a landing slot. If you’ve got to do all of those things, or else people hate you, right? You got to do it all perfectly, you would say it’s only fair that you get profitable, you get seriously rewarded for being able to achieve that. But airlines aren’t that profitable. They’re like 4 or 5% profit margins and best and especially if you look at how much debt they’re carrying, and all this sort of stuff. They’re just not profit engines, they have other things like their point systems, that are the thing that keep them afloat, but they’re not very profitable. If you take something that’s ridiculous, like a Rolex watch, that you can copy pretty convincingly for 1/20 of the price. It’s made with just pretty standard materials, you know, it’s a stainless steel watch, it hasn’t really innovated in 50 years, a Rolex Submariner is the same as a Rolex Submariner in 1970. So all of these things about Rolex would indicate that they shouldn’t be profitable, and they’re wildly profitable, right? They’re a massively profitable company. And really, if you want a Rolex, try and get one, right, get, like, try and get a Rolex. If you want to buy one retail, it’s 18 months to 24 months waiting list. If you want to buy one now, you’re gonna have to pay a premium from a secondhand place, you’re gonna pay 20, 30, 40% above retail, for secondhand. So the only real thing here is that one business, which should be profitable isn’t because it’s very much commoditized. And there’s no waiting list. It’s not oversubscribed, you want to fly, you can fly. The other business, it shouldn’t be profitable. But it is but it’s oversubscribed. It’s very difficult to get one. It’s demand and supply. It’s the first lesson you learn in economics is demand and supply sets the price and when things are in excess demand, then you get profit.
Clint Murphy 12:46
And so that’s really what we’re looking at is commoditization versus a valuable company. And using principles to move the supply demand curve in a way that we have higher demand than we do supply, which is the definition then of Oversubscribed.
Daniel Priestley 13:09
Being oversubscribed is where demand outstrips supply. And most coaches make a huge mistake, which is that they try and increase supply, rather than restrict supply. So for example, you’ll see a coach who’s going through the process of putting all their content online, or they’re creating an online course. You sit there and go but wait a second, an online course is an infinite supply of that product. So it’s going to drive to zero, you’re going to launch the course. You’re gonna launch the course I’m going as soon as you launch it, it’s going to track down to zero.
Clint Murphy 13:43
And it’s going to track down to zero because now you’re competing with all other online courses, and there’s infinite of them out there. Or what’s our rationale?
Daniel Priestley 13:54
It’s going to attract a zero. Because when supply is unlimited, and demand is limited in some way. If supply is infinite, and demand is anything less than infinite, the price goes to zero eventually. Let’s look at Google Maps, Google Maps requires a billion dollars worth of satellites flying around in the sky and the world’s best engineers keeping it up and running. And it’s free, because they can do an infinite amount of it. What is the one thing Google can charge for? The top three spots on a search. If they can charge for the top three spots on a search, that is a finite number of things. So therefore those can be oversubscribed, but everything else is infinite. So therefore, it tracks to zero. And Google accepts this and they make stuff. They make stuff free because of that, they understand demand and supply economics.
Clint Murphy 14:41
And so what jumps out at me and I can use some of the stuff that we’re doing is I grow my side businesses, Daniel, is with a group of friends as an example, we’ve launched a cohort course and one of the mistakes I now realize we made was we didn’t indicate that there was a limited number of spots. And so there was never that urgency that someone needed one of those spots. So there will be close to 100 people that ended up in there. But the amount of hustle that had to happen to bring them in, and price discounting or offers etc, it effectively in time value of money for me personally started to track to zero to your point. And the number one thing I said to my two partners was next time, we need to have a number in our mind that we can get, that’s an easy get if we launch again. And we need to put the number below that and say, this is the limited spots, PS, we’ve already signed up this many people,
Daniel Priestley 15:47
Well, here’s what I would do slightly different, very close, slightly different, I would say we’re launching this program, it’s going to have 100 slots. If you’d like to apply for a spot and if you’d like the information, fill in this application form, we’ll send you out all the information as it becomes available. I would personally work real hard to get about 500 people to signal their intent that they want to be on the program that they’re interested. So that gives me two authentic and real numbers to be able to talk about with people. And I can say, Clint, we’ve got 100 people who are a part of this cohort, and we’ve got over 500 who have signaled their intention to join, would you like to be one of the people who goes ahead, because we’re going to create a an opportunity for you to join next week, just letting you know, it will be the first, we’re gonna go back to the 500. And you’ve been pre selected, we’ve screened away about 150. But now we’re going to get the first 100 can come through. So that creates a moment of like, oh, okay, there’s no negotiating on price here. And there’s no negotiating on time. I don’t do it on my time. And I don’t do it at my price. I either do it or I don’t do it, but it’s going to fill up.
Clint Murphy 16:57
So what you were talking about there, we’re sending out the signal and signals coming back? Can you bring people up to speed on what the signal out and signal in is, that’s a very powerful piece for them to grasp?
Clint Murphy 17:12
Yeah, so one of the chapters in the book is first signals, then sales. And it basically talks about this idea that you don’t sell anything until you’ve got signaled interest first. So let’s use some examples that are in the public domain like Tesla’s cybertruck. So Elon Musk gets up on stage and says, in three years time, we’re going to have a cybertruck factory, we’re going to launch this crazy looking cyber truck that’s here behind me. If you would like a cyber truck, you need to pre register for one, and you need to put down $100 deposit. So that is a signalled interest with a small a small barrier, a million people put down $100 deposit. And he was able to then go to I think it was JP Morgan. And he was able to say we now have a million pre orders $100 deposits for this truck that’s coming three years from now, we’re going to need about 200 million worth of funding to build the factory. Can we get to underpinning with funding to build the factory? And JP Morgan says, Well, of course he can. Because if even a fraction of those people fulfill their orders, that’s going to be a great business. So imagine trying to do it the other way around. Imagine he goes to JP Morgan in secret and says, hey, check out what I came up with. And they go that looks like a teenager’s wet dream of a car. That’s ridiculous. No one’s gonna buy that. And he says, yeah, but what if we build it, and then we’ll try and sell them. And they’re sitting there going, Nn, we’re not going to take a risk like that. So by getting signals first from market, and then he can get the funding and ultimately make the sales. That’s the correct way to go about it. Same sort of thing. If I’m a coach, let’s bring it right down to the ground from Elon Musk to being a coach. If I’m a coach, and I’ve got, let’s say, I was going to put, let’s say, me, personally, I’m going to launch myself as a coach. I’m going to say, guys, I’ve just sold my companies, I’m now going to take on eight coaching clients, I’m not going to kick this off until June, July. I’d just like to get some applications as to who would like to be coached by me, and what you’d like to get out of coaching. So then I’m going to spend probably four or five months just signal collecting, and I’m going to run around, I’m going to speak at events, I’m going to network, and all I’m going to ask people to do is fill in a form and tell me a bit about themselves, what problems they’re wanting to solve through coaching. And I’m just gonna say, I can’t start until June, July for my own personal reasons. But signal collection, if you’re interested, let me know. And also what’s that result worth to you? So okay, I hear that you want to reinvent your company culture, and you want to put together a leadership retreat and you want to do these sorts of things. Okay, great. What sort of budget did you have in mind? What do you think that’s worth to you if to get that right? Okay, great. So you think that’s worth 30 grand? Fantastic. So I’m gonna get a whole bunch of signals and then I’m going to come back and I’m going to review my signals. I’m gonna call people back and say look, good news and bad news. The good news is I’ve got eight coaching spots available, now I’m gonna get started. Our bad news is I’ve been out there talking to people, and I’ve got 118 People who want to be coached by me. So I just want to just double check, would you be interested in going ahead? Or do you want me to take you off the list? And then in which case, people are like, actually take me off the list. I’m not going to compete with 117 others and someone else is gonna say, actually, yeah, I definitely want to be on the list. I say, cool. So you mentioned in the form, that the result you’re looking for is 40,000. Are you happy to go ahead on that basis, it looks like it’s about a six months engagement. We can do the leadership retreat, we can do this, we can do that. All the things that you wanting to do, we can work on all of that in the first six months. If we work on that, and we achieve all of that. Would you be happy with the 40,000 that you mentioned? Yeah, sure. Great, I’ll put you down. Let’s do it. So now I’m not haggling with the market, they’re haggling with me as that can they be one of my eight coaching clients.
Clint Murphy 20:58
So when we look at that, too, because what jumps out at me, as I read and listen to that is, so many of us are still trapped in the traditional model of, and you used Elon as an example. I need to have an idea, build the product, then I market it, then I try to sell it and your saying well wait, have the idea…
Daniel Priestley 21:24
Clint Murphy 21:25
Daniel Priestley 21:26
Clint Murphy 21:27
Collect the signals, reach out to the signals.
Daniel Priestley 21:30
Build demand and supply tension. So once you start the signaling process, you need to actually have transparency of demand and supply tension. So the demand and supply tension is where there’s some form of transparency around the fact that someone’s going to miss out. If I drove past my favorite restaurant, and there’s five or six people standing in a line out the front of the door. I know that if I stop and go into that restaurant, I’m gonna have to wait for 5, 15, 20 minutes to get through the line. And it’s like, oh, wow, okay, like, they’re busy. So there’s no haggling on price. There’s no, either accept those terms or not. Right. So there’s that transparency of demand and supply tension. If I go onto a website, and it says, our system’s overloaded at the moment. So for example, chat GPT is right now, the hottest thing on the internet. And half the time that you use it, it won’t let you in, it actually says sorry, our systems are overloaded right now. We’ll put in your email address, we’ll let you know when we’ve got room for you to come and use the chat GPT. So it’s all of this, like, it’s constantly breaking down, and it’s in demand. And there’s a red orange banner that pops up that says, sorry, our systems are getting smoked at the moment. And you’re sitting there going, uh, and then when they come along, and they say, guys, you can not have any of that for $45 a month, you can have priority access to ChatGPT, everyone’s going to jump in, millions of people are going to sign up in week one, because they don’t want to be in the queue. They don’t want to be locked out of it. They don’t want the uncertainty of knowing whether they have access or not. So they’re building demand, transparency of demand and supply tension is actually building right now. Because people are going, oh, they’re so busy that I can’t even get in. You gotta go through this process of building demand and supply tension.
Clint Murphy 23:23
And when I was reading through demand and supply tension, one of the things that raised in my mind was the sites that try to do it. And it’s manufactured Daniel, only eight spots left, only 12 hours, are they attempting to create the supply demand tension? And is it actually there or does that for you and me who know, well wait a second, every time I’ve gone to your website, it’s told me only eight left. And I’ve been here 20 times. So when they’re using that as a gimmick, and it’s not true, does that dilute it?
Daniel Priestley 24:04
The truth is that demand and supply attention has to be real, and you can manufacture it, you can actually manufacture it like when we use that word manufacturing demand and supply tension. To me that word means that you’ve successfully manufactured demand and supply tension as in there is demand and supply tension. And when it’s real, it works. And when it’s not real, it doesn’t work. So for example, the highest paid coaches that I know of, they typically at some point throughout the year stand on stages in front of hundreds of people. And hundreds of people see them talking about whatever it is they’re talking about. If it’s Simon Sinek, it’s like yeah, look, you know, start with why. And if he was standing in front of you just you personally saying start with why, you’d be okay it’s not a bad idea. But if you’re at a TED conference, and there’s 1000s of people in the audience, and it’s a big stage and he’s just been introduced as just like a legend, and he says, you know, you’ve got to start with why then suddenly like, oh, man, I gotta get this guy into my company. And, you know, that’s a big deal. So, essentially, there’s this genuine demand and supply tension that has happened because you look around and you can see there are other people in the room. Now, when you go to website and says there’s only eight left, and you know that there’s not, what you’re actually suspecting is that it’s artificial or synthetic, and it’s being used as a ploy or gimmick. There are other websites you go to and you categorically, you absolutely know that there are only three in stock, it says there’s only three in stock. And there are 17 people on the page right now buying, and you’re like ooh, I better get that and then sometimes you miss out and you’re like, aww, dammit. So like this guitar that I wanted to buy, I had to buy that from Germany, I tried buying it on three or four different websites in the UK. And just as I’d get to the checkout, they’re like, sorry, it’s out of stuff. I’m like, agh,I’m trying to buy this damn guitar. And I ended up having it shipped in from Germany to get it, right. So it was a particular one that I want. You know, same thing with a Rolex, you go, you genuinely you go on the waiting list, and you wait 18 months, and you ring them up and say, hey, any news on my Rolex? And they’re like, yeah, sorry, you’re still on the list. But we can’t really update you. Sorry, I’m busy by and then one day, they give you the call and they say, hey, look, we’ve got that Rolex that you want. We can hold it here for you for three days. But if you can’t collect it in three days with someone else, and you go back on the waiting list, and you’re like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no. Don’t let that go. I will be down there.
Clint Murphy 26:36
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And so the key is, that’s what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to manufacture that demand supply genuine tension. And, for me, one of the things you know, the whole time I was reading, I was messaging my partners and firing, hey, guys, next time, we got to think of this, we got to do this. And even just friends who have businesses or are creators. And one of the ones that really jumped out at me was the idea I said, I need I need to start 7-11-4ing people. So give you a little longer question on this one. But so this is when it comes to building bonds. You talk about the three ingredients, our brains used to make connections, time interactions, locations. So when I read that, I saw the power of being on multiple social media platforms, having a podcast, having a newsletter, all being locations, time to consume, and that when I eventually get to selling products, and coaching offers, which still probably a couple years away, maybe five. , depending on who’s listening to the podcast – date to be determined down the road. So when I think of that, for me, it’s like, okay, I need to use 7-11-4 to become a star not with everybody. But with enough people, that there’s a demand supply tension for whatever it is, I bring down the road.
Daniel Priestley 28:12
Okay, so this is slightly different to demand and supply tension. And so demand and supply tension is the volume of people who want to buy versus the capacity. What we’re now talking about is the opposite of competition is connection. Alright, so if I have a high, high, high degree of connection, then there is no competition. If there’s low degree of connection, then there’s competition. So for example, who’s in competition with my kids in terms of, could a better kid come along and dislodge my kids from being my kids and say, like, I’ve got a depends on what day right I get it. But it depends, like if I’ve got an eight year old, which I do, and he’s annoying at times, of course, every eight year old is, but if I found a better eight year old, like, who is less annoying, and I went, actually, you know, this supplier of being an eight year old is better than this current eight year old that I have as my kid. It’s not like I’m going to switch them out. It’s so it’s like, because of the connection that I have with my kids. They’re my kids. There is no competition. They are not in competition with anybody. So that’s an extreme example, but if I have a connection to a brand, like it’s irrational, so for example, using the guitar again, if I know that from a teenager, I want to have a certain Fender Stratocaster, and I’ve got reasons why I want a Fender Stratocaster, and my heroes have got Fender Stratocasters, and the Fender Stratocaster is it’s got particular connection for me, then there is no competition. I’m not easily persuaded to have a different guitar that looks just the same even if one even if someone says, hey, look, this is a Yamaha and it looks exactly the same as the Fender Stratocaster. No one will know. I’m like, I will know, I’m not interested in a different one. So this is the thing with connection. So when we want to eliminate competition, we need to increase the level of connection. And the way that we, the minimum standard for someone feeling a sense of connection is 7-11-4. So when people have gone through seven hours, 11 interactions and four locations with you, there’s a minimum level of connection that’s been forged, and the competition starts to melt away, there is no competition at that point, or there’s less perceived competition. But that competition would have to have done a lot of 7-11-4ing themselves, it doesn’t necessarily mean what I’m saying, though, is it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have demand and supply tension. There are people who have amazing connect and followings. But then they go on launch some free course online or some course online, and there’s no demand and supply tension, and therefore, it doesn’t make a lot of money.
Clint Murphy 30:50
So that’s the disconnect right there. We want to build those connections, we use the 7-11-4 techniques. And if we’re doing it right, and we have that connection, when we do go to signal, should we get a stronger supply from that group because of that connection?
Daniel Priestley 31:10
Yeah. So when you described a scenario before of suspecting that it was bullshit, and you thought, hey, I’m at this website, I don’t believe that they’re actually oversubscribed, that to me would be where you sit there and go, hey, wait a second. I don’t trust right, I don’t have a high degree of trust that this is real. Now, if this was one of the heroes that you’ve been following for years, and that you’ve read their book and listen to their stuff, and you’ve seen them speak live, if they told you, there’s only eight spots available and take it or leave it and you have a high degree of trust with them and a high degree of connection, then you’ll say, yeah, like I totally buy into the fact that that’s probably true, and it’s worth it. So you’re gonna go in and say, yeah, I’m all all up for that. So this is where your words have power, because you’ve got to trust, you’ve got the you’ve got the connection with people. So when we talk about, for example, being oversubscribed, and then asking people would you like to go ahead, one of the things I like to do between the point of signaled interest and asking for the sale, is to build that connection and build that trust. So let’s go back to I know we’re jumping around a bit. But let’s go back to the cybertruck example. Let’s say I put down $100 deposit for my cyber truck. But it’s three years into the future. And I need $60,000 to buy the cyber truck. So I’ve got a gap of three years and $60,000 to fill. If they’re super smart, what they will do is they will just heighten your desire and heighten your desire, they’ll send you videos of cyber truck, they’ll send you people, the engineers describing the cyber truck, they’re going to allow you to have exclusive content, they’re going to give you some blogs, they’re going to give you some data and some reports, they’re going to take you on a visual factory tour of the building the cyber truck, they’re going to give you all these updates. And because they 7-11-4 you in between. Now you’re sitting there going, of course, I’m gonna buy this damn thing. I don’t want to miss out. But if they just simply three years into the future, say, oh, by the way, you put down $100 deposit, time to pay another 59,900. Do I really want it? I was excited at the time, but you know, maybe maybe not. So there’s no connection to it anymore.
Clint Murphy 33:25
And one of the ways they can 7-11-4 you, as you were describing it I’m picturing, there can be emails, there can be because of your deposit, you have access to an online virtual event, new location, event, medium, location, time together. And the more they do that, if they can build that bond, maybe as we get there. Now I really want that, hey, let’s do a second deposit. Let’s get some more momentum and get you hooked in a little more.
Daniel Priestley 34:03
Yep exactly. And if you want someone really hooked in, you could take it away from them, you could say, we actually have too many people who want the cybertruck, there’s no way we can fulfill the orders. We’d like to refund you your $100 deposit, please click here for your refund. It’s like no, piss off, I don’t want my my refund. I want the truck. Right. And then as soon as they are alright, alright, we’ll keep you on the list. Now you’re definitely on the list. So at that point, you could actually create a hook moment of anti sell, take it away.
Clint Murphy 34:34
Hook moment of anti sell, Oh, I love this.
Daniel Priestley 34:41
You’ll only be able to do that if it’s genuine, by the way. So like I’ve done several of these. Like for example, I had a big conference and we had 700 tickets, but we had about 1100 people. So we got to 700 paid tickets. We then took it up to probably I think it was just under 900 who had paid for a ticket. And then we started the waiting list. And we ended up with about 1100 in total. So we had like, 8, 900, who had paid. So then we just emailed everyone and said, we’ve sold too many tickets, can we please buy back your ticket for twice what you paid? So you paid 39, we’ll give you double that if you’ll just give it back to us. You know, if there’s any reason why you’re not going to turn up, can you please just tell us now so that we can take the ticket back, pay you double and give it to someone on the waiting list? And we had people like ferociously, no, no way, man, we this is my ticket, I booked early, I’m not selling my ticket. And I don’t want your offer of double, like only is very small, like 50 people took us up on that offer, you know, out of out of 900. So it was like pretty, pretty wild, like people don’t like missing out on something that’s happening.
Clint Murphy 35:50
Because you’re doing a couple things there, not only are you signaling to the waitlist, you’re going to have to pay more because of this demand supply tension, you’re also signaling to the people that do come, the amount of value they’ve already gotten, is heightened. Now the intensity and the desire when they show up is wow, I’m invested in what I’m about to watch. So you’re almost creating a fevered audience, it feels like.
Daniel Priestley 36:19
It does. And when we’ve done that, when I first walk out on stage, they erupt in applause, like spontaneous, it’s weird. It’s spontaneous applause, which almost never happens. But I’ll just walk out and like, get ready to start. And then they’ll just be like clapping and whooping. And it’s like, hey, you guys are in a good mood. So it’s a strange phenomenon. But it really it’s that build up that makes people want to, you know, they’re really bought in at that point.
Clint Murphy 36:47
So Daniel, I’m going to take you backwards and go in a bit of a direct different direction. And I’m gonna take us back to when we talked about commoditization versus being in demand. And I’m going to tie this to, you know, you have three kids, I have two kids. And as they grow up, a lot of people will tell kids, you want to focus on in demand skills. And what’s always jumped out to me, and what I write about is I say, in demand skills aren’t necessarily what you should be focusing on. Because that’s where everybody goes, and the arbitrage drives the in demand skill to your point, drives it down to zero, because too many people go there. What you should instead be focusing on as a young person is rare skills, and the way I look at rare skills, is, I may be an accountant as an example. And I’ll work on public speaking, I’ll host a podcast, I’ll become a writer and so I have a depth in my accounting as a CFO. But now I’ve broadened in myself and added on to that technical skill or to that skill stack, skills that a normal accountant doesn’t have, making it rare and so that to me tied into when you were talking about not going after these in demand roles, or companies or opportunities, and instead trying to build for the rare.
Daniel Priestley 38:20
Yeah, what you’re talking about is points to a deep truth. And the deep truth is that it’s the demand and supply tension that sets the price. So for example, there are not many people seeking to buy a really, really old Rolls Royce, right? So there’s not a huge market for all Rolls Royces. There’s probably only a few 1000 people who want to buy one, but there’s only a few 10s of them available. So and the people who tend to want them are extremely, you know, cashed up, and they’re going to fight with each other. So even like if you said, is it an in demand, our old Rolls Royce is in demand. Like I’m talking 1920s Rolls Royces or something like that. A 1920s Rolls Royce is in demand. So there’s not a huge market for it. It’s not like there’s 1000s of people, 1000s and 1000s of them bought or sold. But is it rare? Yeah, it is. And what we’re really looking for is demand and supply tension. So demand and supply tension is like for example, let’s say you’re a CFO, who previously worked on a series of M&A deals in the boutique, craft beer space. And it culminated in a $500 million group of craft beer companies being put together and acquired. And really, there’s not that many CFOs who’ve got the experience with the craft beer industry. And they, they’ve been through the whole M&A roll up space, and they’re excited. You know, they understand that they’re excited about it, they’re passionate about it. So this is something that is very rare, and there’s there’s an in demand, demand and supply tension around that role, because very few people have that experience. But you wouldn’t say it’s it’s an in demand, it is not like to millions of people googling CFO for craft beer, it’s not you couldn’t find the data to back up that that would be a great idea. But there is a demand and supply tension around, I want to find someone who’s got the experience of building a $500 million craft beer business.
Clint Murphy 40:16
Let’s pivot to a different direction that ties to some of what we’ve been talking about. And what jumps out at me, is even you and I having a conversation and referencing Rich, who we talked about earlier, as someone you’ve worked with, now, that immediately jumps out to me is Oh, wow, well, if Daniel worked with Rich and I love Rich, then I love Daniel, and so what I’m talking about there is the fact that people or our audience want social proof. And I think you say they want to see others buy from us, they want to see others value us and they want to see others recommend us. One of the things we don’t necessarily do enough of is use the testimonials or celebrate them. And so that’s one of the things you talk about is celebrate your clients, make them the stars of your show, and get famous on their success stories, put them up on the pedestal, and then other people see them, see what you did for them. And now all of a sudden, you’re creating that demand. Why do we not do so well at that? And how can we do it better? Thanks for listening. If you enjoy what you’re hearing so far, and want me to be able to get your favorite guests on this show, please do me a quick favor, subscribe to the show. And leave me a rating, the 30 seconds of your time will mean a ton to me.
Daniel Priestley 41:56
So the reason we don’t do so well. Is there’s two parts to that question. Why do we not do so well? And how do we do better? So why do we not do it so well, is because we were raised in a system that was designed around component labor. And everything in the schooling system is designed to prepare you to be a good piece of component labor that fits into somebody else’s machine perfectly. So in the schooling system, you don’t want to say I’m a different type of person, you don’t want to say, oh, by the way, I got my friend to do the homework because I identified who’s the smartest. Clint was clearly better made the mathematics so I got him to do the homework. And wouldn’t it be great if I just showcase how well Clint did. So in the schooling system, we have to put the spotlight on our own value. And we have to put our spotlight on the value of our component labor, which is interchangeable generic commoditized labor. That’s the whole point of the school schooling system. So creates all these ugly habits, around how we talk about ourselves, how we present ourselves to the world, things that absolutely in conflict with communicating value. Right. So that’s why we do it. How do we do it better. So we celebrate the success of our clients, we recognize that we’re standing on a mountain of value, and we’ve lost perspective around it. So we have to learn how to recognize and describe the mountain of value that we’re already standing on. We can document our case studies, we can capture our case studies, we can get famous on the success of our clients, we can showcase the results that we’ve had with others and use those as demonstrations of success, we can recognize that people want to buy. People do not want to buy what others want to sell, they want to buy what others buy. So I don’t want to buy a Louis Vuitton handbag, because I don’t want to buy a Louis Vuitton handbag, because Louis Vuitton really, really, really wants to sell it. I want to buy a Louis Vuitton time handbag because lots of other people want to buy it. So we respond to what others are buying, not what others are selling, right? It’s irrelevant as a buyer, it’s relevant to us to say, oh, this company, guess what? This company really, really, really, really, really wants to sell their coaching package. It’s like, okay, who cares? Right? Well, amazing. So what? So that’s not what we respond to. But what we do respond to as we go, wow, that coach has 1300 people who have joined their waiting list that’s insane, what are they doing that’s different, or that coach was the coach of someone who I know who’s freaking fussy as anything. This person is one of the highest paid coaches in the world. And they paid this guy to coach them, and it’s like, what’s going on there? So we respond to what others are buying more than we respond to what others are selling,
Clint Murphy 45:01
You raise a good point on some of that, even as I when we were looking at building a home, one of the biggest decision points for me was, there was a builder who had built one of my closest friends homes. And I know he goes through very rigorous thought exercises on hiring people. And I ended seeing the finished product. And there was another friend who hadn’t done the build yet who vets more than anyone had ever seen. And he’d landed it on the same person. So for me, it was really a phone call and a hey, are you available to come build here because you’ve already you’ve already been vetted by people I trust.
Daniel Priestley 45:44
So imagine this, imagine you pick up the phone, and you talk to this builder? And he says, oh, am I available, I will meet you at three o’clock in the morning. I really, really, really, really, really need to sign up some people at the moment, I am in a position where I need to sign you up. I need to make a sale. You suddenly you go whoa, hold up, slow down.
Clint Murphy 46:05
Yeah, what’s going on here?
Daniel Priestley 46:08
Yeah, you just killed it. So here’s what happens 90% of businesses, subconsciously communicate self intent, self interest, and they’re communicating, I want to sell something. They’re telling the market, hey, by the way, I’ve got stuff available, I want to sell it. And the best brands say, I haven’t, I’m sorry, I haven’t got available, I’m not available to you. You’re not on the waiting list. You unfortunately, you’re late to the party. There are others ahead of you in line. And I’m flattered by the fact you’d like to work with me. But just know, I’ve got other things. I’ve got other people and other other people to see. And people respond to that, they respond to what people want to buy, not when people want to sell
Clint Murphy 46:52
And so the example you give of that is you have a coach that’s recommended to you. You dial them up or email and you get a reply back that says, hey, great, thanks for reaching out, I’m gone for the next X number of weeks. Can you reach out to me when I’m back? So for some of us, we instinctively think, well, shit that would really throw me off like I’d be a no, you actually point out it has the opposite impact. And it even had a bit of the opposite impact for you. Can you can you chat a bit about that?
Daniel Priestley 47:22
Yeah, the first serious coach I employed when I was 23, it was $5,000 a month. And at the time, that was a lot of money for a coach, that was serious money. And I’d seen a friend of mine, a guy called Adam who had gone through really serious growth and was building a very valuable business. And he’d gone from super stressed out to playing golf three days a week and doing a property development and, and I said, Adam, what the hell like how, we’re in a young entrepreneurs group together. We’re all under 30. I said, how have you done this? Like, this is epic. Because I got this coach, this coach is great. And he’s been a great coach for us. And he like he’s helped me get the company into that position. And I’ve gone can I get his number? Like, can I can I find out? So yeah, then the guy says, look, I’m away on holiday. I just don’t talk to customers or potential customers. I don’t even talk to my paying customers when I’m on holiday. Balls in your court, you call me and said, I’ll be back on this date you call me I’m not going to chase up with you. And I’m like, okay, here I am thinking about spending $60,000 a year with you and you’re telling me balls in my court, you’re not going to take down my number, you’re not going to follow up with me like because I said, can I give you my number? Can you call me when you’re back? And he goes no, no balls in your court, you call me You’ve got my number. I’m not going to chase you, you chase me. And he was just so brutal about that. And then when I signed up, he said first thing before we even discuss anything else, I need to tell you my rules. I’ve got rules that for me being a coach. The reason I’m a coach is because I’ve chosen a particular lifestyle, and that lifestyle comes first. So here’s my rules for being a coach, for me being your coach. And it was basically, he dictated a whole bunch of rules around this is I’m going to tell you in advance when my holidays are, you’re not going to call, I don’t care if your business is burning to the ground. If I’m on holiday, I’m not available for you. I’m not going to do an emergency session, under no circumstances am I going to ruin my holiday for you. And like it was those kinds of rules. And the said, If you’re happy to proceed on that basis, then we can talk about everything else. But you need to know those are my rules. And there was like four or five to those kinds of rules. And oh man, did I want this guy as my coach so bad?
Clint Murphy 49:36
Well, if we think about it, having rules, having boundaries, having your principles and stating them upfront. If you want to work with me, here’s four or five things you need to know. Here’s me, here’s you. I’m only working with you if you’re trying, you’re signaling, right there, you’re signaling a bit of that demand supply tension because you’re saying I don’t need you like, meet my parameters, or I’ll go get the next person who does.
Daniel Priestley 50:04
Totally that, here’s the thing, I will say this, you can’t really fake with or without you energy, right. So what he was displaying was this with or without you energy, which is basically, I’m going to be busy with or without you, I’m going to be full with or without you, I’m gonna have clients with or without you, I don’t need you to be to have a full diary. So that is something I call with or without you energy, with or without you energy. Problem is you actually, I don’t think you can fake it long term, or you’d have to be a proper psychopath to be able to fake it long term or a Hollywood actress or actor or something like that. So there is something magic that happens when it’s genuine, when it’s real, when you really do have with or without you energy, like so, when you genuinely have a waiting list, you’re not worried if you see someone who’s got genuinely a lot of people who want to go on a date with them. And there’s just lots of people in their, in their DMs and you know, they just have a swagger. They just have a certain swagger of like, I’m not chasing anyone, I’m, I genuinely don’t care. It’s not fake, it’s not artificial, you know, we can go on a date or not, it’s fine. My diary is full with or without you, right. So that’s that kind of genuine swagger that comes up when you’ve got an abundance of options. And the trick is not to try and fake it. The trick is to get yourself in that position.
Clint Murphy 51:24
Yes, it which is everything we’re talking about. You want to manufacture your way into a position where you have, with or without you energy, not faking with or without you energy, because the other side of the equation, there’s the guy or the gal who everybody wants to date and they have that energy. The other side of the equation is I need you, that needy person, and no one wants to grab the needy person and go to the bar.
Daniel Priestley 51:54
And it’s so weird, because I’ve seen guys who are six foot, handsome, lean, good jobs, good income, but they have needy energy, and they repel. They are literally everything that a woman would say she wants on a checklist. And they just repel people because they’ve got needy energy, they just have this needy energy, they might be able to have an initial conversation, but it goes downhill so fast. And I’ve seen people who are the opposite, where they’re not traditionally good looking, there are people who have looked better on paper. But they’ve just got the swagger and they’ve got no neediness. And suddenly, they’ve got plenty of people who go gee, it would be great to go out with you like it would be so cool to go on a date with you’d be an interesting person. And it’s like, yeah, take a number and get in line. Everyone wants to go on a date with me, like, you know, it’s like, whatever.
Clint Murphy 52:44
And well, it’s that right there. I mean, it’s could you ever just have that energy, this, maybe, like, send me a message..I’ll get back to you someday, potentially, like there’s just like a level of confidence, that you have to get to that few people have. And, you know, skip obviously, the dating part. But if you want to be an exclusive, if you want to be a successful coach, you have to have or a business owner, you have to have that energy. With your potential coaching clients, you have to have that energy with your potential customers. Even if you want to hire the right people. You don’t want to come across when you’re trying to build and we’ll talk about hiring later. But you don’t want to come across to a potential candidate super needy, you want to come across as hey, 50 people want this job. Like we like you. We want you let’s do this.
Daniel Priestley 52:44
But there’s 49 others. Yeah, let’s do it. But yeah, and the cool thing about with or without you energy is often you don’t even have to say anything, it’s a nonverbal. It’s a nonverbal communication that just underpins everything else. So this is one of the key points with signal collection versus before sales. I’ve found that with or without you energy kicks in at around four to one. So when you want to take on one coaching client and you’ve got four people, if you know that you can only take on 10 coaching clients and you’ve got 40 people who’ve who’ve signaled interest. You’ve started, you’ve now got something, you’ve got a natural swagger that starts to build.
Clint Murphy 54:22
And that resonates big time because if we go back to the last course that we launched horribly. So many mistakes, so many lessons, Daniel, thank you. As we went, okay, we’ve got 25 people, you could see the three of us thinking, oh my god, we’re not total failures. People want to learn from us. Then you’re at 40. And all of a sudden, it’s hey, guys, discounts. Like, this was the discount. That was last week. This week, we’ll give you this code. The following week, we’re at 50 people. Hey guys, codes dropped again. Here’s the new price. And every week, just our energy and the main way we were we sold like we’ve been talking about it, we’re on a platform called Maven. And Dave reached out and said, hey, guys, like we haven’t seen many cohorts in round one, do the sales you guys are doing, like is it all affiliates, what have you been doing. And it was really using social audio media rooms. And it was talking about our experience and the experience of people who’ve worked with us. And then saying, and we’ll talk about this with ecosystems, because this actually ties in as I think about it, giving away 90% of what we know in those spaces, and then just saying, hey, you know, if you want more of what you just got, here’s the code. Here’s the website, jump on in, you know, we’ve already got 80 people in there. So if you want to be one of the few to join us, we think we’ll be at 100, when we’re done. And that’s a lesson and a mistake, Daniel is not saying, We think we’ll be at 100, it’s, we’re capped at 100. There’s only 20 spots left.
Daniel Priestley 54:27
We’re capped at 100. And also, even better would be we’re launching this, it will be capped at 100. We’re at the phase at the moment where we’re just seeking some interest. You don’t have to pay any money, what I’d like you to do is just fill in an application and in the application, you tell us what are you trying to get out of it so that we can assess whether it’s, it’s a good fit, we’ll get back to you. If we think it’s a good fit, we’ll get back to you. But that could be two or three weeks from now. Now, if you because think about it like this, if someone’s going to part with money, they have to feel 100% sure, or 95% sure. And then you’re going to have to do a discount or guarantee to make up the shortfall. If someone’s 10, or 15% sure that they’d like to do something, they’ll fill in a form, right, they’ll signal the in, they’ll do an easy signal of interest, that takes a minute, they’ll do that. And then you can begin the process of closing the gap. So let’s say those audio rooms that you were in, let’s say there were like 100 people listening, 200 people listening, and every time you’re in front of 100 or 200 people, there were three people who signed up with credit card details and booked a slot, I would hazard a guess to say that there was another 15 to 20, who were like, I’m not ready to part with cash right now, I’m not ready to pay you with my credit card. But oh boy, I would fill in some detail to get some additional information about what’s happening. And, and like what’s, who’s at for and all of that, like I’m interested. So what happens is, if you did the exam, let’s say you did the exact same number of audio rooms that you did, but there was no ability to buy, it was just you fill in the application. And then we’ll let you know if a spot becomes available, you would probably get up to say 400, 500 people who fill in that application. Now you go back to everyone and you say we’ve got 500 people who filled in the application, we’re taking only 100. We’re taking people, what we’re looking for business owners that are already north of half a million. So we’ve immediately eradicated everyone who’s less than half a million of revenue, it will only be for business owners that half a million plus. And we also said we identified that some of you are struggling with the operations and finance and some of you are struggling with sales and marketing. So we’re just making this very operations and finance focused. So we’ve immediately eradicated everyone who’s a sales and marketing. And now we’re getting first dibs to all of you that was you, you said that that was your northern half a million and your your issues operational, we’d love to give you an access to a spot before we open up to the wider group, you’ve got 48 hours to book your spot. What would have probably happened is you’d fill all 100 spots at full price, no discount.
Daniel Priestley 56:11
Yeah. And that’s what’s jumping out at me is we didn’t realize the power of this. So there’s a waitlist feature. There was a certain number of people on the waitlist, I don’t think our email campaigns were strong. So there’s room to work on there. And the other thing we hadn’t done any of the spaces, we didn’t realize the power of the spaces until we’d flipped from waitlist to launch. And it by then it was too late. So next time to your point, if it’s a two month campaign leading up to it, the first month is spaces,
Daniel Priestley 59:08
Maybe even six weeks
Clint Murphy 59:09
With only a waitlist, maybe even six weeks and then at the end of that six weeks, you’re over 1000 And you’re saying hey guys, there’s 100 spots, there’s 1000 people signed up and you take them through that and you make it very personal and go much closer to full docket at full price.
Daniel Priestley 59:30
Yeah, exactly. You don’t need to do any discount. If you’ve got that demand and supply tension. You can be full price and that’s just how it is. That’s the price. And if you are that oversubscribed, great.
Clint Murphy 59:42
Yeah and pick a number that gets you the the value you want.
Daniel Priestley 59:46
Exactly. And that you can deliver delight. You want to make sure you deliver delight. It’s got to be amazing for the price if you charge 1000 It’s got to be worth five or 10,000 minimum. It’s got to be genuinely a great, I’ve got to walk away feeling that that was really exceptional, that it was really, really great. So if you can only do that with 92 people, then take on 92 people. But if you can’t really do that, once you get to 108 people, just feel really stick to 92 people, because that’s the number you can actually look after. So it’s really it’s about figuring out how many people can I genuinely look after and genuinely delight, and then sell the waitlist, like you’re selling the program, sell the waitlist, like you’re selling the product. So ferociously sell the waitlist. I’ll give you another example. I raised money for my tech company. And this was a couple of years ago during the pandemic, and all that sort of stuff. So, first thing I did is I scheduled for angel investor boardroom meetings, virtual angel investor boardroom meetings with about eight to 12 angel investors per boardroom. And I went out to the Angel Network, and I said, so I went out to all the people who I thought would make great angels and different networks. I said, we’re doing angel investor presentations, there’s four time slots available, if you’d like to join, here’s the time slots, so they could book in. And basically, I said, we’re going to take you through our numbers and our strategy and our trends that we’ve noticed, there’s no obligation just come along and have a look at what we’re presenting. So in one week, we had four presentations. And I think there was eight to 12 people per presentation. At the end of the presentation, I said, we’re not taking on investment just yet. What I would like is if you’re interested in being an angel investor, I’d like you to just fill in a registration of interest. What sort of money would you be interested in investing? What do you bring to the table beyond the money? Is there any additional context, or anything that you would say is a added value beyond the cash? And then we’re just going to have a look and see who’s there. By the end of this week, we’ll get back to you guys next week. So we wanted to raise whatever we wanted to raise call it half a million or a million. We had double to triple that of expressions of interest by the end of the week. So then we go back, and we say that we’ve got twice as much money as we need, and we’re not going to take it, we’re only going we are only going to take this round one. We’re not going to dilute beyond that. I noticed that you’ve got here that you can make a corporate introduction to this big bank. Is that genuine? What are your thoughts on that? Like what we can know a little bit more about that? Oh, yeah, well, I used to work there. And I’ve got direct access to this department and blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. So if we bring you on, could we count on you for that? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, great. Well, you put down that you’re interested in 30,000. I want to bring in enough angel investors pushing this hard, would you be able to come in at 20,000. So that I can bring in some additional angels who have got strategic benefit? Would you bring your number down? Yeah. Okay, I’ll bring my number down to 20. Okay, great. I’ll take you in at 20 grand. So what happened in that situation is for the first time ever, angels had been told no, you can’t have the full allocation. And they’d also been told, like, are you committed to doing this additional thing beyond the money. And we documented that we put it on heads of terms and all that stuff. And basically, we ended up with people fighting to get into the angel round. And being told that they had to put in less than they had hoped,
Clint Murphy 1:03:12
Put in less than they hoped, provide more than they normally would. And you’re the double beneficiary of all of it.
Daniel Priestley 1:03:19
Yeah. And they loved it. They loved it. They’ve all described this as the best angel investment they’ve made and the best angel experience they’ve had. Because we have amazing Angel update events with them. We keep them in the loop with data, we ask them for specific things we actually say. So like, every three months, we’re doing an angel investor update. And we’re saying we’re treating them as a community of supporters. We’re never keeping them in the dark. All the numbers are transparent, the dashboards come out regularly. And then we say, here’s what I need from you this month, I need, I want, I want this, I want this, I want this on this, can you please let me know who can help me with these things. And because we’re treating them so well and because they feel so privileged to be part of this journey. They’re all looking for ways to help. They want it, they want this to be a thing. And the funny thing is, that’s actually why people become angel investors in the first place, they want to be part of the startup growth, they don’t want to write a check and then be told to sit in the dark room and wait for the exit. They want to be part of the journey. So we’re involving them. And we, because they had to jump through hoops to get in, they love being part of it. And they love helping when, when possible, so set it up in the right direction.
Clint Murphy 1:04:26
I love that. So last direction on the book that I’d like to talk to about is the idea of ecosystems. And one of the things you say there that I found was powerful was “it’s the ecosystem as a whole that creates the value, not any one product or service system or person and you can’t expect to be highly rewarded for doing a good job. Rather, you can expect to be rewarded when you’ve built a high performing ecosystem that delivers value in a multitude to two ways.” So where do you see individuals, solopreneurs, entrepreneurs or even companies? Where do you see them screw that up. And what does good look like?
Daniel Priestley 1:05:09
Let’s go really great, especially in the coaching space. If you take someone like Eric Ries or start with why Simon Sinek part of the ecosystem is a best selling book, a ton of content on YouTube, interesting reports and data that gets put out once twice a year, speaking at TED, speaking at Google, making the those things available, having online assessments that people can take, having certified coaches who know the methodology, but are not the guru, and then having ultimately the ability to work with the guru if you can afford it. So that would be an example of ecosystems at the highest level. Take Rich Litvin right. So Rich’s got a couple of great books. And they sell well, he’s got some online assessments, and they’re great. He’s got 4PC, which is a group program, he’s got these sell ons that he runs two or three times a year, which, which are like 100 to 200 people. And he’s got his one on one coaching. So it’s that ecosystem. And sure enough, people attend to sell on, which is the 100, 200 person event. And then they go on and do 4PC and someone goes off and does 4PC. And then they say, actually, I want to work with you, I want to bring you into my company and do one to one. And someone starts and says I want to do one to one and now finish that engagement I want to do 4PC, I want to join the waiting list for that. And oh, it’s been a couple of years, I want to come back to a sell on. So people bounced around the ecosystem. And if you start to dismantle it, it just ceases to be profitable. It all comes crumbling down. So if you said, you know, Simon Sinek said, oh, actually, I’m so sick of the speaking and I’m so sick of the books, and I’m so sick of all of that stuff, I just purely and simply want to cut myself off from all of that and just simply be a coach, it’s going to spiral down. Because it’s the ecosystem that’s producing ultimately, the result. Here’s the funny thing with me, I’m not a coach, but I do have coaching clients. And I typically at any given time, I might have three or four coaching clients who I take on. I’m running a group of companies, I’ve got eight companies, and I’m running my companies and I’m an entrepreneur. And that’s my main thing. The funny thing is the three or four coaching clients that I have per year that come perfect to home run fits, they bubble up out of the overall ecosystem. Like someone might say to me, oh, Daniel, how did you get that amazing celebrity client? And I go, oh, well, someone handed them a copy of my book. And then they got in touch through Twitter. And then I, they couldn’t meet straightaway. So I sent them the assessment that I do. And then they checked me out online. And they saw that I’m building a tech company in an accelerated business, and I bought and sold, you know, eight companies and, and it’s like, ah, then they knew. And then they also heard that I’d worked with that celebrity, that other celebrity chef. Oh, okay, cool. So it’s like it bubbles up out of the ecosystem. If I try and kill everything, and just say I just want high paid coaching, that’s all I want, it’s going to be hard for me to get without dedicating, like serious energy around that particular project. But if I just simply trust the ecosystem stuff bubbles up out of the ecosystem.
Clint Murphy 1:08:23
And so part of the ecosystem that I often see whether it’s individuals, or companies miss is the power of social media. If it’s a company, taking some of your key, whether it’s ownership, key leadership executives, profiling them, it’s much harder to build the brand of a business than it is to build a brand of the people. And then have them be featured in the business as a way to sell. And then on those platforms give away 90% of the value. Give, give give, or is Gary Vaynerchuk, think it’s Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. So why do people have such a hard time committing to putting themselves out there and giving away information that I mean realistically 90% of what we think is our proprietary juice
Daniel Priestley 1:09:19
We forgot that we swiped it.
Clint Murphy 1:09:21
Okay. Yeah, we all read Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And every time I quote it, people think I’m quoting Atomic Habits. It’s like no, James Clear read Seven Habits, and so did I. So sorry, James, so why do people just want to clam it up and be their own? And why does so many of them still ignore social media platforms today? Am I wrong on this?
Daniel Priestley 1:09:42
Well, a lot of people don’t want to give away ideas because they think ideas are valuable. And you know, ideas are just not valuable anymore. We can access any number of ideas at the touch of a button. You know, you can download the plans for a stealth bomber. You know, you can if you want to download the code for, you know, Google’s algorithms. I’m sure it’s sitting there somewhere, like everything that you might, you know, Warren Buffett’s entire investment strategy is like out there for 10000s. I recently read a book called principles with Ray Dalio, the multi billionaire hedge fund guy. And it’s like, the guy has put everything he’s learned from his whole life into one book, and you can buy it for 20 bucks. So like, the ideas are not particularly valuable. What’s difficult, and what is valuable is implementation and actually doing something together. And actually, transformation is valuable. Getting a result is valuable. So sharing the idea is actually what makes people trust and what makes them engage. And then working with them on transformation. Now, one of the reasons people don’t want that to be true is because transformation is hard. Right? It’s like, it’s wouldn’t it be great if you could have a coaching client and you go, go to the gym more often, and they go, oh, well, that’s an amazing idea. I should go to the gym more often. Yeah. And make more sales. Oh, wow. Yeah, I should make more sales. That’s awesome coaching. Thanks, bro. So like transformation’s hard. And the idea doesn’t actually do a lot of the heavy lifting. The idea is nice. But it doesn’t, you know, talk doesn’t cook rice, as they say in China. So there’s coaches who do transformation, and they get paid a ton of money because with the coach, you get a different result than without the coach. If the coach is involved, the result is going to be vastly different. If the coach is not involved, you’re going to get a shitty result. So the coach is doing something that that adds up to transformation. The reason people don’t put themselves out there is they think it’s about them. Right? The goal is not to be in the spotlight. It is to become a spotlight. As someone who’s chasing the spotlight is saying Look at me, look at me. Look how awesome I am. Check me out. Look at this avocado I had on breakfast today. Look at this gym routine I just completed, look at me, I’m this amazing person. I’m standing in front of a Ferrari today. Right? So that is like chasing the spotlight. It’s narcissistic. And it’s disgusting. People hate it. And people hate and people don’t want to be a narcissist. Steve, though, like most humans don’t want to actually be that guy. But when you say my job is not to chase the spotlight, but to become a spotlight, then it’s like, oh, really all I’m doing here is I’m shining the light on this thing that I want you to know more about. I’m showing you stories that will benefit you. I’m trying to add value to your life. And I’m detached from whether that helps whether that results in a client or not. I want to shine the spotlight on this particular thing. I want people to know how this works. And that is incredibly compelling. When you become a spotlight, people show up to see what you’re spotlighting today, when you’re chasing the spotlight, people that want to take it off you they’re like, uggh, right. So what people are lacking is the distinction between chasing the spotlight and becoming the spotlight and how to do the right thing versus the wrong thing. So hence, they just throw the baby out with the bathwater. They say well, I’m not going to be a narcissist, I’m not going to put myself out there. And I’m not going to share my ideas. It’s like, whoa, hold up, those ideas that you’ve tangled up a few ideas that they’re actually different, you know, and we need to untangle those ideas and throw the narcissism away, but retain the value sharing process. And we need to share ideas freely, and then charge for the implementation and transformation.
Clint Murphy 1:10:14
And when we say being the spotlight versus chasing the spotlight. Being the spotlight, we’re sharing our ideas, we’re sharing ways for people to grow, we’re giving value. And it’s not about us, it’s about the audience and helping them.
Daniel Priestley 1:13:45
So like let’s say you’re a CFO, and you’ve previously worked in craft beer. And what you want to do is you want to talk through, you know, here’s what I’ve learned from doing 17 m&a deals in this space. And here’s what we found were the biggest drivers of valuation. And when we sold to this big company, this is what they were most concerned about. And people are like, whoa, that’s really interesting. I didn’t know about that information. How can I get you on my team? How can you help my craft beer company to become worth 100? million? Ah, that’s awesome. Right. So it’s like, by spotlighting the story, by spotlighting the examples, by putting some good value in the spotlight. Now people are like, can you how can we work together? How do I do stuff? That’s the difference.
Clint Murphy 1:14:32
Okay, last question for you, Daniel, and then hopefully have time for our final four is this statement I found very interesting. “You are Who Google says you are.” Can you tell us about that?
Daniel Priestley 1:14:44
Yes. So there’s going to be a life changing deal that comes your way, right? Someone’s going to buy your company, someone’s going to want to partner with you. There’s a celebrity who’s going to get involved in your business and they’re going to blow your business up because they’ve already got three million followers, those things are gonna happen in your life if you’re lucky. But they will be preceded by a Google search. So the person who is going to do that deal with you is going to Google you, and they’re gonna go, or I’ve done deals in the past with people who weren’t who they said they were. I’m just gonna Google them and see what happens. And when they Google, you, one of three things is going to happen, you’re either going to come up as exactly who you say you are, right? So it’s gonna look great. This person is a key person of influence, this person has been sharing content for years, this person has got a following of people who adore them. And it’s like, of course, I want to do a deal with this person, I want to invest, I want to buy, I want to endorse, or it’s going to come up crickets, nothing like there’s nothing there. There’s a LinkedIn profile and a Twitter profile. And you go to the Twitter profile, and there’s 128 followers, and we’re discussing a cold chicken sandwich on British Airways flight, and it’s like, okay, whatever. And crickets. Okay, cool. You got a LinkedIn profile, whatever, okay, you’re a nobody. You’re a worker bee, you’re component labor, okay, maybe I’m going to start treating you like component labor, I’m not going to do a deal with you, I’m gonna leverage you. And then there’s negative stuff, could be genuinely negative as in like, you’ve got something in your past that went badly. And it’s all over the internet, which case there’s no deal happening. Or it could just be unfortunate. Like, there’s a serial killer in Florida with the same name. And it’s like, oh, God, that’s a bit icky. And now deals not happening either and no fault of your own. So, ultimately, when we fast forward 10, 20 years into the future, and life worked out, well, life really worked out well. And it’s like, How did life work out? Well, it worked out because a series of good deals happen. I had some great deals, some, some agreements happened. Some people I got involved with, some funding I got, all of those good deals happen. How did those deals happen? Well, when they Googled me, good stuff came up, and they went ahead and did the deal. Right. That’s how it happened. So this is a really important component to gateway. If you can’t pass that test, as far as people are concerned you are who Google says you are. If I google you and nothing comes up, you’re not interesting. So if you look like a key person of influence, you are a key person of influence, we’re doing a deal.
Clint Murphy 1:15:54
And so one of the things we need to do is, I mean, the general idea that I talk about a lot of people is radical responsibility and ownership. And so our Google profile is one of those things we should take ownership of, and we should make sure that (a) we’re living a life that drives it, and (b) we’re interacting with the online environment in a way that produces a search result that we want.
Daniel Priestley 1:17:46
Yeah, yeah, it’s not hard. Like everyone listening here. Every single person listening here has had something interesting. I’ll give you a stupid example. If I went back right to the beginning of my career, and I said, let’s say I got together with someone and we did a video intro. What did you learn from McDonald’s? Well, they want to learn how to sneeze. And here’s the sneezing system that McDonald’s and here’s why sneezing, here’s why they teach a sneezing system at McDonald’s. That’s interesting, basic content. If I said whatever I learned from working at one of the top end bars and the top restaurants after McDonald’s, what was that experience? Like going from McDonald’s to an exclusive bar and restaurant? And what were the differences? That would be interesting content, I could have done both of those pieces of content at 18. At 20, I could do what’s it like first year working for a startup that goes from zero to 60 people. So every single person listening here in the last couple of years, you’ve had some experiences that you probably just simply take for granted, like being taught how to sneeze at McDonald’s. And, you know, you’re sitting there going well, that’s not very interesting. And it’s like it could be could actually be if we video it and put it on online. And if we, you know, we could also do commentary about things that are happening, I could do a video about my thoughts, you know, cybertruck, and how he launched cybertruck, all of that stuff. So we don’t need a lot. We just need a little bit of stuff that points to a truth. And the truth is, what do you want people know that to know about you, if you want to say that you’re good at systemising things. Coming in and talking about the system for sneezing points to that truth that you’re interested in systemising things. So it’s about looking at it through the lens, having radical empathy for someone who doesn’t know you, and giving them a trail of breadcrumbs that they can follow that helps them to understand who you are and what you’re all about.
Clint Murphy 1:19:32
And one of the things I often use as a metaphor and example on with that Daniel is if you think about the ladder of life, or the ladder of experience, the top of the ladder could be Z. And people think they need to be at Z before they can teach or before they can share on social media. But if even if you’re on Step B, there’s people in Step A, there’s always someone behind you who can learn, grow, benefit from what you’ve done, and you gave excellent examples of that. So one of the for people out there, never be afraid to start and put yourself out there. There are always people behind you who can learn from you. So Daniel, if you have a couple quick minutes for a final 4 question,
Daniel Priestley 1:20:11
Let’s smash it out. Let’s do it.
Clint Murphy 1:20:13
Okay, what’s been one of the most influential books on your life that you’ve read?
Daniel Priestley 1:20:18
First thing I’ll say is the book that changes your life the most is not one you read, it’s one you write. And I would encourage people to write a book. Because, look, you can read a lot of books and books are great, and it’s a great habit to be in. But ultimately, if you really want to, if you really, really want to change your life, write a book. That’s a great milestone to have as a goal. If you’ve got time to read, write a chapter, see what comes out, and and see if you can get three chapters in to writing your own book. So I’m going to flip that question around and say, if you got time to read, have a go at writing the book that will categorically change your life the most is one you write, not one you read.
Clint Murphy 1:20:56
Powerful, well said. And then also contrast it. If it is one you’ve read. It’s not the one you’ve read. It’s the one you’ve actually acted on. So what are you reading right now? What’s on your shelf?
Daniel Priestley 1:21:07
What am I reading at the moment, I’ve been reading a meditation book, Understanding some strength in stillness has been a good one. And it’s actually a really great daily practice
Clint Murphy 1:21:17
Is that Ryan Holiday?
Daniel Priestley 1:21:20
No, it’s similar. It’s because he wrote Stillness is The Key. And yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Yeah, so it’s similar situation. Ready, firing, I’ve been reading that, and Three Simple Steps and The Coaching Habit, are the ones that are on the go at the moment, and Tony Fidel, Build as so all into that. And then what was the one I finished a little while ago was Energize Simon, Alexander on, which was really good. Everything comes back to your energy for it, which was really cool, simple idea. Everything requires your energy. So how do you have more of that? Energize, Yeah.
Clint Murphy 1:21:56
So what’s one thing you’ve spent less than $1,000 on in the last year that Daniel thinks, wow, I really wish I’d bought that earlier.
Daniel Priestley 1:22:03
A really nice journal, and a really nice pen. So like, I personally, like, there’s a Mont Blanc journal, that is about 50 pounds, so probably $100, $80 or $100. And there’s a Mont Blanc pen, that’s probably about 500 bucks, there’s something about having a really nice pen, and then a really nice journal that just kind of calls you to journal before bed. And you know, throughout the day, and it just something about it feels important. And it feels like a ritual or, you know, feels nice to journal with a nice pen in a nice journal. So I would encourage everyone, you know, in a world of digital and screens, there’s something very therapeutic about having a journal with a nice pen.
Clint Murphy 1:22:47
And when we want to create habits, using rituals is a powerful way to do it. So having that nice journal, having that nice pen, and you use the word you said, it creates a ritual, you’re more likely to journal than I am. You know, I’ve got my work pen in my normal day journal, there’s no, there’s no ritual there. So that’s a powerful answer to go with it. And so this show is about growth and so what I like to ask people, as the final question is, what is one mindset shift habit that you’ve adopted in your life that’s had the greatest overall impact for you.
Daniel Priestley 1:23:27
The mindset shift is, at the essence of stoicism is the idea of can I control this? Is this something I can impact? Or is this not something I can impact? And the classic example, the most frequent example, is watching the news. So when you watch the news, you’re engaging in something that’s going to use up your emotional energy, that you have absolutely no control over most of the time, whatever’s on the news has already happened. Most of the time, it’s way too big for you to have any influence over whatsoever. And most of the time, you’re not going to have any influence over it, you’re not going to write a letter to your MP, you’re not going to write a letter to the CEO of that company, you’re just going to be outraged. And you’re going to engage in something that’s just, you have no control over it. So the mindset shift is disengage from stuff, you don’t control. disengage from Tiktok, you have no control over what content is coming on. Every time you swipe up, you’ve got no control as to what they put under you, in your head. Same with all these other algorithmic things, right? So if you can’t control it, disengage, it’s not yours. Don’t do it. So a mindset shift is, I don’t engage with content that I’m out of that is not related to something I can control and I don’t engage with I’ve, I wish I didn’t engage with content I can’t control. I’m trying to be better disciplined with that. But I’ve noticed about myself that it’s very easy for me to start scrolling on YouTube shorts, and suddenly I’m out of control as to what I’m brainwashing myself with. YouTube’s in the driver’s seat. So this is the key idea. No news, no algorithmic decision making around content that I’m consuming, right? It’s conscious consumption of content relating to something I can control.
Clint Murphy 1:25:10
Conscious consumption of content and focused on control. Love it. Great, great answer. And is there anything we didn’t cover that you want to make sure the listeners get?
Daniel Priestley 1:25:22
Can I be a little self interested here. So we created this company called Score App.. And it’s online quizzes and assessments in 2016, I launched an online assessment, and it brought in 90,000, warm leads and 15 million pounds worth of sales $20 million. And, and essentially, I went from running really labor intensive events all the time, to just having a steady stream of people filling in the online quiz and taking the self assessment. And then that became that just got allocated to our sales team. And we made a bunch of sales and very instrumental in having a more workable business. Having more work life balance, I couldn’t be traveling around the world with three young kids doing events, the online assessment works anywhere in the world. So we packaged this up into Score App, making it super easy for people to build their own online assessment. I think anyone who’s a coach, consultant advisor, would be really wise to have an online assessment that is bespoke to them, that is a piece of proprietary content that they’ve got. So based upon your experience, based on your background, you come up with 10, 15, 20 questions that are thoughtful questions that you can ask people, you create a little landing page, people take the assessment, they then get a score, and then you discuss that score with them. And it’s a really powerful coaching. It’s a really, really powerful way to win coaching clients and to actually kick off the coaching experience with people and to manage the client and be able to showcase the transformation showcase. You know, we took it on day one, and then three months later, and you you went from a 17% to a 74%. So Score App is the technology you use to do that. And it does a beautiful landing page, a questionnaire with a point scoring system and dynamic content that displays based on how someone’s goes and then it gives you all the data and the insights on the back end. So you can use that data and use those insights to make more sales and improve your marketing. So one thing we didn’t talk about at all is like that, that whole system, that score app system, but it’s a really good system for your listeners, and they can do a free trial on all the stuff that you’d expect.
Clint Murphy 1:27:28
Yeah, and data and there’s so much that we didn’t get to. Buy the book, Oversubscribed. Look at the Score App, there’s so much you can do where else can they find you Daniel.
Daniel Priestley 1:27:40
All the socials, Insta and LinkedIn and all that connect, reach out and let me know that you had been through this podcast, which would be great. There’s actually four books in the entrepreneur journey series. So there’s Entrepreneur Revolution, Key Person of Influence, Oversubscribed and 24 assets. So there’s four books in that series. And then there’s a book for parents how to raise entrepreneurial kids that I co authored. So there’s and then there’s the latest book Scorecard Marketing, which is about that score app, how we set up an online assessment and how we did that. So basically, you don’t need to stay in touch with me, all the ideas are in the books.
Clint Murphy 1:28:13
All right, we’ll get links to everything on the show notes. And thank you so much for joining me today. I learned a lot when I read the book, I learned a lot in our conversation, thoughts are swirling in my head on the next campaign that we’ll be launching. Really appreciate it.
Daniel Priestley 1:28:27
Cheers. Thanks for having me.
Clint Murphy 1:28:34
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